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#2042350 - 11/26/11 10:04 PM FindAGrave on Facebook (rant)
RosalieAnn Offline


Registered: 12/06/02
Loc: St Mary's Co., MD
I signed up for Find A Grave on Facebook as I thought it would be interesting, and indeed when the site was down, that's how I found out about it.

HOWEVER

The people over there are recommending rubbing to see what the stone says. Among other things. They are also complaining about people being mean to them when they steal photos and post them as their own and they do not see what they have done wrong.

I have left the group as I am tired of being the only one to keep saying, no don't do rubbing, no don't do this or that. I guess they think I'm mean and grumpty.

I guess I am, but I'm so upset that those people are doing/recommending things that are so against the site rules and I seem to be the only one telling them NOT to do that. So I've just unsubscribed - I can't stand it anymore.
_________________________
Formerly County Keeper St. Mary's Co. MD

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#2042411 - 11/26/11 11:01 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
RosalieAnn, I believe the reason they post on FB is because they know they would get blasted on these forums for advocating rubbings, excusing photo lifting and bashing anyone who does not transfer willy nilly. It was pretty much the same in the Find A Grave Addicts group on GenealogyWise.
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2042891 - 11/27/11 06:18 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
billl Offline


Registered: 11/18/04
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
That, and a lot of them may have been kicked off this site! smile
_________________________
A mind is a terrible thing to close.

Your Creator gave you a brain. Try it, you'd be amazed at all you can discover.

We are born naked, wet, hungry, and get slapped on our arse; then things get worse.



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#2042980 - 11/27/11 08:14 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: billl]
JulieSullivan Offline


Registered: 03/27/07
Loc: Mongolville
Sounds like someone started a site just to give anti-Find A Grave advice. Could be that one who started so many of the other things against this site (july1962).
_________________________
Horde'r grin
Fallen Gravers 1
Fallen Gravers 2

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#2044667 - 11/29/11 07:31 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: JulieSullivan]
coan_net Offline


Registered: 08/07/05
Loc: Central Illinois (Danville are...
Does Find A Grave have an "official" Find A Grave Facebook page? (Probable all just normal users setting up sites with the Find A Grave name.)
_________________________
Vermilion County IL Cemetery Info:
http://www.vermilioncounty.info

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#2044820 - 11/29/11 10:23 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: coan_net]
eidolon Offline


Registered: 05/25/06
Loc: Minnesota
I joined that group too when the site was down....guess I never paid that close of attention to it....just went and left the group also. You cant steal photos and act like theres nothing wrong with it...shakes head....what the heck??
_________________________
In the dead vast and middle of the night....

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#2044853 - 11/29/11 10:54 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: eidolon]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
Oh, but it wasn't wrong because she didn't take the photo. All she did was copy it from one spouse's memorial to the other...and other people defended her because there was no "intent". crazy
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2045157 - 11/30/11 09:50 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
crokersack Offline


Registered: 01/22/10
I also have a problem with taking credit and posting cemetery surveys from copyrighted books. Most think it is okay, and quote public domain. How is that public when it was done by a society that use the books to make money for projects. Most of the offenders have never taken a photo much less got beggar lice in a cemetery and we all fawn at their feet. I believe that this will come to light and it is going to cause big problems for this site as well as other sites. As far as photos go, NBC news said that when you place a photo on a public digital site, the copyright goes to the site and you lose any say so. It is just an quirk of unwritten laws that are subject to change in the future. Write you state attorneys office, they handle this type of theft.

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#2045167 - 11/30/11 10:05 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: crokersack]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
Croker, on another site, someone said something about that NBC news bit, so I'm going to ask the same question I asked there - can you post the link? I believe there is more to it than simply "if you post a photo". The Terms & Conditions of each site comes into play. For example, here on Find A Grave, it is clearly stated the copyright remains with the contributor, but over on Ancestry, the T&C states by uploading you grant Ancestry license to redistribute in whatever manner they deem appropriate. Most hosting companies (like GoDaddy.com) prohibit posting anything that will violate the intellectial property rights of someone else (ergo, don't post what you did not create).

And, no, my state attorney (and I doubt any other) does not handle this type of theft because copyright is an interstate issue.

As to the "copyrighted" books... "facts" (the names and dates) ARE public domain. No one can "own" them, because no one created a fact. What is copyrighted is the 'collection' as a whole (the entire book) and the 'original presentation' of those facts (how the facts were arranged).
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2045201 - 11/30/11 11:22 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
RosalieAnn Offline


Registered: 12/06/02
Loc: St Mary's Co., MD
I take photos from a book published before 1900. I think that book is out of copyright (has never been reprinted).

IMHO publishing a book to make money is no longer an effective way to do that. Magazines and newspapers are struggling, bookstores are going out of business - the print media is all struggling. Those societies who hope to raise money that way are going to have to find another way to do it.

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#2045307 - 11/30/11 02:28 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
If a book was printed in 1900, it is out of copyright. Whether it was reprinted or not has no bearing.

The internet is driving hundreds of local historical and genealogical societies into insolvency, and a few state ones as well. The sad part is nobody has really come up with any viable solutions to replace to lost income. With the closing of these societies comes the question of where their archives will end up. Maintaining archives is an expense, so often passing them along to another society isn't a workable solution since the other society can't afford the additional expense of maintanence. So what happens to the material and information? Does it end up on ebay, out of public hands? Does it end up in a local members garage or barn until the elements turn into compost?

Some of that may be the only survey conducted on long lost cemeteries.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2046400 - 12/01/11 09:51 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
RosalieAnn Offline


Registered: 12/06/02
Loc: St Mary's Co., MD

How about just gifting the stuff to the SLC library? I'm sure they would archive it for you.

I did a compilation of all the information from a book that was published in 1926 without an index. My mother wanted me to sell it. I didn't think anyone would pay for it. I did think briefly of putting it on a CD, but I think that would be beyond me and probably not worth it. So if anyone wants the information, I'll give it to them for free.

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#2046422 - 12/01/11 10:17 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
Originally Posted By: RosalieAnn

How about just gifting the stuff to the SLC library? I'm sure they would archive it for you.

I did a compilation of all the information from a book that was published in 1926 without an index. My mother wanted me to sell it. I didn't think anyone would pay for it. I did think briefly of putting it on a CD, but I think that would be beyond me and probably not worth it. So if anyone wants the information, I'll give it to them for free.


Me, Me!! Need my email?
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2046701 - 12/02/11 09:09 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
RosalieAnn Offline


Registered: 12/06/02
Loc: St Mary's Co., MD
What I mean is that if anyone wants to know what the author said about some ancestor, I will find it and tell them what it was. I don't have a cd but I do have a vc called Sketches... If you want to look at that
_________________________
Formerly County Keeper St. Mary's Co. MD

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#2055776 - 12/13/11 11:36 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
IMATEXN Offline


Registered: 12/07/07
Loc: MS, Warren County
RosalieAnn, I agree. I had to unsubscribe, too. That was just awful. Reading the posts was making me anxious and I can't just keep taking zanax to be able to read those posts. lol

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#2061400 - 12/21/11 09:39 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: IMATEXN]
LaurenThomas Offline


Registered: 06/29/11
Loc: Southern wisconsin
Is the Findagrave Facebook page "official" ??? Like are one of the Administers the creators of that page??? They are using a logo that like very much like FindAGrave's. I would think that if Mark or someone one had created the group on Facebook they would monitor it, at the very less put the rules of FindaGrave up as a disclaimer.

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#2061767 - 12/22/11 12:23 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: LaurenThomas]
RosalieAnn Offline


Registered: 12/06/02
Loc: St Mary's Co., MD
I think anyone can start a group and that group is not official

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#2062211 - 12/22/11 09:55 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
Bunnygirl Offline


Registered: 11/29/10
Loc: Kentucky
But they use the Find A Grave icon.
_________________________
Laugh until your body aches, cry until you start to shake, live like the world is yours to take and love as though your heart won't break.

- Unknown

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#2063322 - 12/24/11 09:38 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Bunnygirl]
BeardedWierdo Offline

Gliding monkeys!

Registered: 11/14/07
Loc: Delaware County, PA
Originally Posted By: Bunnygirl
But they use the FAG icon.
That's not hard to do. You might consider it shady, but it's easy to do.
_________________________
The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too. -- Oscar Levant

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#2063400 - 12/24/11 11:29 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: LaurenThomas]
OsideNative Offline


Registered: 07/03/04
Loc: SoCal
This is the "official" Find A Grave Fan Page on Facebook. It is managed by Find A Grave and they seldom post anything.
There are no official Find A Grave "groups" on Facebook. They are all unofficial, started and run by fans (or not fans).

To find out who the admin(s) of a "group" are, click on the Members link at the top of the page. On the page that comes up, click on the drop-down arrow next to All Members and select Admins. Do you know those people?
_________________________
"If there are no dogs in heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went."
-Will Rogers

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#2063437 - 12/24/11 12:01 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: IMATEXN]
chetsgirl Offline


Registered: 01/26/07
Loc: Here
Quote:
Reading the posts was making me anxious and I can't just keep taking zanax to be able to read those posts. lol


Oh gees, much better reasons for taking Zanax that reading Find A Grave!! LOL

A few of the posters are very obviously people who passed through here and were just as rude then - which is why they aren't here!!
_________________________
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." Ben Franklin

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#2064195 - 12/25/11 12:33 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: chetsgirl]
ASSASSINBUG Offline


Registered: 01/07/10
Loc: Land of the Misfit Toys
I always liked to read those posts when I am in need of a good laugh.
_________________________
The Future: Your computer wants to kill you. The Reality: You want to kill your computer.

We get too soon old and too late smart.

Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.

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#2064251 - 12/25/11 03:00 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: chetsgirl]
BeardedWierdo Offline

Gliding monkeys!

Registered: 11/14/07
Loc: Delaware County, PA
Originally Posted By: chetsgirl
A few of the posters are very obviously people who passed through here and were just as rude then - which is why they aren't here!!
This got me to thinking about rudeness in general.

Why are rude people rude? Because it works for them (or, as Dr. Feel might say, they get a reward for their behavior).

Do rude people think they are being rude? I doubt it. People seem to have this phenomenal ability to convince themselves that their vile behaviors are above reproach, even when they'd never tolerate these behaviors in others.
_________________________
The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too. -- Oscar Levant

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#2064510 - 12/26/11 01:03 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
seekerJay Offline


Registered: 10/14/08
Loc: Lower Hudson Valley
Originally Posted By: RosalieAnn
. . .The people over there are recommending rubbing to see what the stone says. Among other things. . .


It's hard to maintain your credibility with people used to taking shortcuts. When people with the influence of Dick Eastman support methods like using shaving cream, they undermine your efforts. While his blog entry is bad enough, if you read his responses to comments farther down, he supports the shaving cream practice even more strongly. Then in the last comment (after finding out about the stance of the National Center for Preservation Technology & Training (NCPTT), he back-peddles. A sad display.
http://blog.eogn.com/eastmans_online_genealogy/2005/05/tombstones_and_.html

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#2064616 - 12/26/11 08:49 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: seekerJay]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
The problem with the NCPPT article is that most shaving creams don't have emollients, less than 20% of the shaving cream sold in the US have emollients. They do however have 2 or 3 degreasers, the same ingredients used in laundry detergents to remove oils and grease. Only the more expensive shaving creams have emollients. Of course you don't have to take my word for it, you can read the label and google Sodium Lauryl Sulfate or Triethanolamine.
If someone has reasons not to like shaving cream use then state facts. When they resort to misrepresentation or outright lies they remove all their credibility.
This sites policy is if it isn't yours don't touch it. That means you can't use shaving cream, chalk, flour or foil on stones. That is all the reason you need (for this site).
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2064982 - 12/26/11 04:46 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
If someone has reasons not to like shaving cream use then state facts. When they resort to misrepresentation or outright lies they remove all their credibility.

There are two eminently credible experts in the field of cemetery preservation who grace this forum from time to time both have repeatedly told of first hand cases where they have had to deal with damage caused by shaving cream.

Lack of facts is not an issue. People who don't want to accept the facts are the issue.

Originally Posted By: rottenralf
This sites policy is if it isn't yours don't touch it. That means you can't use shaving cream, chalk, flour or foil on stones. That is all the reason you need (for this site).

This site should not enter into the equation. No monument has ever been harmed in this forum. The problem is people who think they know better and continue to use or advocate the use of techniques which are known to cause harm.

_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2064991 - 12/26/11 04:56 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
Facts are the issue. When you resort to gross misrepresentations or outright lies you loose all credibility. Why are the experts claiming there are emollients in shaving cream when that is rarely the case. You can't argue against this, you just have to read the ingredient labels of the biggest selling brands.
Other scientific studies have concluded different results than the ones you are touting.
If you are going to make up garbage just so you can have some sort of reason to disuade people from using a product, pretty soon they are going to ignore you when there is a real issue. You can only cry Wolf! so many times.
Above all else, everybody deserves the truth.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065007 - 12/26/11 05:14 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
Facts are the issue. When you resort to gross misrepresentations or outright lies you loose all credibility. Why are the experts claiming there are emollients in shaving cream when that is rarely the case.

The why is unimportant and should not enter into the equasion any more than "this site". You yourself just said shaving cream often contains degreasers. This would be an even bigger problem than moisturizers.

As I said we have forum members who have had to professionally deal with damage caused by shaving cream. Moisturizers, degeasers, or that refreshing menthol wake-me-up, it doesn't matter. Some or all forms of this product CAN cause significant damage which is more than enough reason to not use or advocate the use of any type of shaving cream.
_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2065014 - 12/26/11 05:26 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
This site does enter into the equation, since the rules state only one side of the pros and cons are allowed to be discussed. What happens in the real world is totally beyond your and this sites control.

Are degreasers going to be the next lie thought up? Because not one of the experts has ever had an issue with those. Seeing that degreasers are part of the solution used in cooling the blades in the cutting process of stone I am really having a hard time believing you.

Since this discussion is happening on this site, the sites rules are paramount. If it's not yours don't touch it. That's AJ's guiderule. Do not take photos of creamed, chalked, foiled or rubbed stones...another guiderule. Most important, tell the truth. Lies and gross misrepresentations are disrespectful the the users of this forum.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065055 - 12/26/11 06:01 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
This site does enter into the equation, since the rules state only one side of the pros and cons are allowed to be discussed. What happens in the real world is totally beyond your and this sites control.
Each of us has control over what we do, so it's up to us wether we live the spirit of the rules established to protect the monuments or just give them lip service.

Originally Posted By: rottenralf
Are degreasers going to be the next lie thought up? Because not one of the experts has ever had an issue with those.
Lie? I don't know if shaving cream has degreasers, I was taking your word for it.

Both forum users who have extensive proffesional experience with monument care and cleaning have stated that amatuers can easily damage a stone with degreasers.
_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2065123 - 12/26/11 07:37 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
Originally Posted By: KN16
Both forum users who have extensive proffesional experience with monument care and cleaning have stated that amatuers can easily damage a stone with degreasers.


Oh stop it!! You're just embarrassing yourself.

I'm going to have to put a page up on my cemetery site this weekend about different methods to read and preserve stones. I hope you don't mind if I quote you on it[to tell the truth, I don't care if you mind or not, this is too good to pass up].
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065145 - 12/26/11 07:58 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
Originally Posted By: KN16
Both forum users who have extensive proffesional experience with monument care and cleaning have stated that amatuers can easily damage a stone with degreasers.


Oh stop it!! You're just embarrassing yourself.

I'm going to have to put a page up on my cemetery site this weekend about different methods to read and preserve stones. I hope you don't mind if I quote you on it[to tell the truth, I don't care if you mind or not, this is too good to pass up].
I'm in no way embarrassed. The posters who post to this forum who are experts and who have said degreaser can be harmful to a stone monument have clearly documented their expertise. Since you disagree with them what exactly are your qualifications?
_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2065150 - 12/26/11 08:04 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
With cutting fluids? I'm an expert.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065157 - 12/26/11 08:12 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
With cutting fluids? I'm an expert.
As I said the others posting to this forum who claim expertise have shared with us their qualifications, which are indeed impressive. Can you share with us what you are an expert in and what qualifications you have?

BTW there's a big difference between the use of cutting fluids on a new monument and amateur use of degreasers as a cleaning fluid on monuments that are decades or in some cases centuries old.
_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2065169 - 12/26/11 08:28 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
Decades of design of cutting tools and cutting cooling systems. As with any detergent and degreaser, the object is to encapsulate particles and oils so they can be taken away but the water. Same principle applies whether you are washing clothes, washing dishes, taking dust away from cuttting equipment, or mopping a floor.
Let's take this down to a home level...you are claiming using a solution of Dawn dish washing liquid and water will permanantly harm your marble cutting board? (No, cutting boards are not sealed, the first cut would render that usless so don't even try that).

Oh, and any other reader of this thread, do not try this at your local cemetery unless you happen to have your own personal marble cutting board stored there. AJ's rules.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065182 - 12/26/11 08:41 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
Let's take this down to a home level...you are claiming using a solution of Dawn dish washing liquid and water will permanantly harm your marble cutting board? (No, cutting boards are not sealed, the first cut would render that usless so don't even try that).
When the cutting board wears you throw it in the garbage and buy a new one. Hard to compare that to a one of a kind monument expected to last centuries.

You have declared yourself to be an expert would you please share with us your field of expertise and qualifications?

_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2065196 - 12/26/11 09:01 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
BeardedWierdo Offline

Gliding monkeys!

Registered: 11/14/07
Loc: Delaware County, PA
Typical shaving cream recipe:

77% water

8% Stearic acid, a saturated fatty acid that occurs in many animal, vegetable fats and oils, most commonly taken from palm oil or coconut oil.

6% Polyoxyethylene Sorbitan Monostearate, an emulsifier (to mix immiscible or unblendable substances)

5% lanolin, a wax extracted from sheep’s wool, acts as a lubricant and emulsifier holding water to your skin.

3% Triethanalamine (TEA), surfactant or wetting agent lowering the surface tension of a liquid, one part of its molecule will be attracted to water while the other will be attracted to oils and grease. It is also used to balance the pH.

2% Glycerine, a moisturizer, lubricator and humectant.

-------

So it sticks oils and greases onto things. Yuck.
_________________________
The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too. -- Oscar Levant

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#2065197 - 12/26/11 09:02 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
I just did share my expertise and qualifications. What are yours? Fictional writer?

Marble is marble. Are you saying Dawn dishwasing liquid will harm marble? You still haven't provided any links where the experts claim detergents and degreasers harm stone. And since we are talking detergents and degreasers that are specifically used in laundry detergent that also would have to be specific. Sulfuric acid could be used as a degreaser so including that in with your list of degreaser would be misleading. Your turn to ante up and show your stuff.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065201 - 12/26/11 09:05 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
AJ Offline
Oh, the minutia

Registered: 04/10/02
Loc: The End of Forever
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
Decades of design of cutting tools and cutting cooling systems. As with any detergent and degreaser, the object is to encapsulate particles and oils so they can be taken away but the water. Same principle applies whether you are washing clothes, washing dishes, taking dust away from cuttting equipment, or mopping a floor.
Let's take this down to a home level...you are claiming using a solution of Dawn dish washing liquid and water will permanantly harm your marble cutting board? (No, cutting boards are not sealed, the first cut would render that usless so don't even try that).

Oh, and any other reader of this thread, do not try this at your local cemetery unless you happen to have your own personal marble cutting board stored there. AJ's rules.

"AJ's rules"?

Care to explain that, daddio? If you can show exactly where and when I stated those precise "rules" you speak of, we *might* let you keep your account(s).

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#2065205 - 12/26/11 09:11 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BeardedWierdo]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
Originally Posted By: BeardedWierdo
Typical shaving cream recipe:

77% water

8% Stearic acid, a saturated fatty acid that occurs in many animal, vegetable fats and oils, most commonly taken from palm oil or coconut oil.

6% Polyoxyethylene Sorbitan Monostearate, an emulsifier (to mix immiscible or unblendable substances)

5% lanolin, a wax extracted from sheep’s wool, acts as a lubricant and emulsifier holding water to your skin.

3% Triethanalamine (TEA), surfactant or wetting agent lowering the surface tension of a liquid, one part of its molecule will be attracted to water while the other will be attracted to oils and grease. It is also used to balance the pH.

2% Glycerine, a moisturizer, lubricator and humectant.

-------

So it sticks oils and greases onto things. Yuck.


BW - Neither Gillette Foamy or Barbasol regular contain lanolin or glycerine, those two alone make up about 50% of shaving cream sales in the US. I wouldn't call your list typical.

Yes, it envelopes oil and grease. All detergents do that, it's how they work. Tide, Dawn, Spic & Spac, Irish Spring, Swifter spray, Pantene shampoo, etc. Most people never think about the mechanics of soaps and detergents, but that is what it is. It envelopes gunk and keeps it suspended in water so it can be rinsed away. That's what happens everytime you wash your floor, do your laundry or take a shower.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065206 - 12/26/11 09:12 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
I just did share my expertise and qualifications.
No you said you were an expert and put a period after it. The other two posters who post on this forum have been very clear about their fields of expertise and qualifications. I'm not an expert which is why I defer to those that are and have backed it up with impressive qualifications.

You said you are an expert. What are you an expert in and what are your qualifications?
_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2065210 - 12/26/11 09:16 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: AJ]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
Originally Posted By: AJ
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
Decades of design of cutting tools and cutting cooling systems. As with any detergent and degreaser, the object is to encapsulate particles and oils so they can be taken away but the water. Same principle applies whether you are washing clothes, washing dishes, taking dust away from cuttting equipment, or mopping a floor.
Let's take this down to a home level...you are claiming using a solution of Dawn dish washing liquid and water will permanantly harm your marble cutting board? (No, cutting boards are not sealed, the first cut would render that usless so don't even try that).

Oh, and any other reader of this thread, do not try this at your local cemetery unless you happen to have your own personal marble cutting board stored there. AJ's rules.

"AJ's rules"?

Care to explain that, daddio? If you can show exactly where and when I stated those precise "rules" you speak of, we *might* let you keep your account(s).


AJ, your yearly message, as you called it, "If it's not yours don't touch it." You want the actual linkage? I can get it. No disrepect intended, Jim's site, your his admin, you stated that rule, that's what I live by here.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065211 - 12/26/11 09:19 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
rottenralf Offline


Registered: 05/16/11
Loc: In the principal's office
Originally Posted By: AJ
My annual declaration (that everyone hates):

It's not your job to clean or restore gravestones. In fact, never touch them. Just photograph them. That's how you preserve them. Everything ages and deteriorates. It's the natural way of things. Leave it alone.

-AJ


linkage: http://www.findagraveforums.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2023550#Post2023550

5th message down.
_________________________
Genealogy Is Chasing Your Tale

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#2065274 - 12/26/11 11:36 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: rottenralf]
AJ Offline
Oh, the minutia

Registered: 04/10/02
Loc: The End of Forever
Originally Posted By: rottenralf
Originally Posted By: AJ
My annual declaration (that everyone hates):

It's not your job to clean or restore gravestones. In fact, never touch them. Just photograph them. That's how you preserve them. Everything ages and deteriorates. It's the natural way of things. Leave it alone.

-AJ


linkage: http://www.findagraveforums.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2023550#Post2023550

5th message down.

Well sure, most are familiar with that one. Not even close to what you attributed to me by inference, though.

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#2065319 - 12/27/11 01:39 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
Treblemaker Offline


Registered: 04/20/09
Loc: Southern California
Originally Posted By: RosalieAnn
I take photos from a book published before 1900. I think that book is out of copyright (has never been reprinted).

IMHO publishing a book to make money is no longer an effective way to do that. Magazines and newspapers are struggling, bookstores are going out of business - the print media is all struggling. Those societies who hope to raise money that way are going to have to find another way to do it.

A little thread drift here: Has the Borders Book Store in anyone else's area gone out of business? Ours was such a big, well stocked, well run store, that I can't believe it shut down. I have migrated over to the Barnes & Noble.

Now, back to the original thread while Treblemaker goes to the corner to crack open a new John Grisham book she got for Christmas/Hanukkah.
_________________________
It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.

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#2065958 - 12/27/11 10:34 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Treblemaker]
bastillebaby Offline


Registered: 12/12/04
Loc: Semi-Coastal
Borders thread drift, cont’d. - mine closed too. The closest Barnes & Noble is very small, about 1/4 or 1/3 of the old Borders store. We have a great independent bookseller that still thrives.

<---leaves to read a new (to her) Bille Letts novel.
_________________________
Never wrestle with a pig.
You both get dirty, and the pig likes it.


My avatar, Felix Leclerc
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=5312241

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#2066561 - 12/28/11 07:53 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: bastillebaby]
seekerJay Offline


Registered: 10/14/08
Loc: Lower Hudson Valley
rottenralf - Why are you fighting so hard to defend using shaving cream on a surface it was never designed for? If you called, say, Gillette, what advice would they give? It's guess, but I strongly suspect they would tell you NOT to use their product that way.

Hey! Are you Dick Eastman? laugh

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#2066602 - 12/28/11 08:57 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: seekerJay]
BeardedWierdo Offline

Gliding monkeys!

Registered: 11/14/07
Loc: Delaware County, PA
Actually, in past threads rottenralf hasn't defended it, just questioned the quality of the science (there really isn't good science on this; no money - no science).

It'd be really nice to see some real science. If I could figure out how to do it, I would, but I'd have to do it on my own nickel, which is pretty worn thin right now.
_________________________
The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too. -- Oscar Levant

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#2066620 - 12/28/11 09:29 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BeardedWierdo]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
Science is not needed to know it's bad, which is not a rare occurrence. We have a stone mason and a professional preservationist who hang out here and both have had to deal with damage caused by shaving cream. We've seen photos of monuments stained or with odd vegetation growth due to the use of shaving cream. Why? It doesn't matter. What ingredient? It doesn't matter. Any specific stone type? It doesn't matter. Any specific brand? It doesn't matter.

For many thousands of years no one understood why the sun appeared in the sky, but it still showed up every morning. You couldn't say, well the science isn't known so it's going to be dark tomorrow.

If someone wants to do a scientific study God bless 'em. Until that point it is still known that shaving cream can be harmful to these one of a kind monuments, therefor common sense should say do what is best for the monument.

If you want to take the opposite view and say it hasn't been proven shaving cream causes damage, do you want to take the chance and does anyone here have the right to experiment on something which is essentially irreplaceable? Unless of course they can claim ownership of said irreplaceable object.

Not to mention that if someone wants to label themselves an expert here they should be willing to share with us why they are an expert.
_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2066629 - 12/28/11 09:43 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
BeardedWierdo Offline

Gliding monkeys!

Registered: 11/14/07
Loc: Delaware County, PA
Oh, I agree... it's not good to use. But some need proof.
_________________________
The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too. -- Oscar Levant

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#2066983 - 12/29/11 10:20 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BeardedWierdo]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
The proof is nothing more than academics. Meanwhile arguing the point gives support to people who are using these harmful techniques.
_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2067010 - 12/29/11 10:40 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BeardedWierdo]
chetsgirl Offline


Registered: 01/26/07
Loc: Here
Quote:
Why are rude people rude? Because it works for them (or, as Dr. Feel might say, they get a reward for their behavior).


BINGO!
_________________________
"We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid." Ben Franklin

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#2067228 - 12/29/11 04:42 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KN16]
BeardedWierdo Offline

Gliding monkeys!

Registered: 11/14/07
Loc: Delaware County, PA
Originally Posted By: KN16
The proof is nothing more than academics. Meanwhile arguing the point gives support to people who are using these harmful techniques.
What you are saying is true, but there are those who still believe that if we haven't got concrete proof (which science rarely provides - only evidence) we've got nothing at all.
_________________________
The only difference between the Democrats and the Republicans is that the Democrats allow the poor to be corrupt, too. -- Oscar Levant

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#2067253 - 12/29/11 05:09 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BeardedWierdo]
KN16 Offline


Registered: 07/24/10
Loc: Illinois
We have all kinds of proof that some shaving cream is harmful to some monuments. Period end of story. All it takes is to look at a monument damaged by shaving cream to prove it happens. Just as the sun came up before anyone understood why.

Asking for scientific evidence as to why is completely different.

Given it is known by experts in the field to damage monuments the lack of a why or a scientific study is not an excuse to put a monument at risk.

Arguing we should ignore the anecdotal evidence until we get scientific evidence only puts monuments at risk because some will misunderstand the point and use it as an excuse to continue a poor practice.
_________________________
My web site: Nagel Family History Upadted 31 Dec 2011 Over 10,000 individuals, over 3000 families, more than 800 photographs!!!

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#2151941 - 04/10/12 12:38 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
Scot Stout Offline


Registered: 03/16/12
Loc: Central Missouri
i just went to FB to find it. typed in "findagrave" and found two interests, one community, four open groups and one closed group. which one is the one everybody is talking about?
_________________________
Auto-correct has become my worst enema.

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#2152383 - 04/10/12 10:43 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Scot Stout]
RosalieAnn Offline


Registered: 12/06/02
Loc: St Mary's Co., MD
Find A Grave (Find A Grave): Successes, Issues & Solutions
We are a venue on Facebook (FB) which affords all former/current Users of and/or Contributors to the website Find A Grave (Find A Grave) (www.findagrave.com), opportunities to share their experiences - POSITIVE and/or NEGATIVE - about Find A Grave, while suggesting viable solutions towards solving problems on that site.

December 23, 2011 at 1:03a
Quote:
Just wanted to let folks know that if they have any memorials on Find A Grave that are "Burial Unknown," they might want to change them to "Cremated-Location of Ashes Unknown." It just might keep the delete-happy admins from getting rid of them.
_________________________
Formerly County Keeper St. Mary's Co. MD

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#2158646 - 04/18/12 02:13 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
KatieABK Offline


Registered: 06/11/09
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: RosalieAnn
Find A Grave (Find A Grave): Successes, Issues & Solutions
We are a venue on Facebook (FB) which affords all former/current Users of and/or Contributors to the website Find A Grave (Find A Grave) (www.findagrave.com), opportunities to share their experiences - POSITIVE and/or NEGATIVE - about Find A Grave, while suggesting viable solutions towards solving problems on that site.

December 23, 2011 at 1:03a
Quote:
Just wanted to let folks know that if they have any memorials on Find A Grave that are "Burial Unknown," they might want to change them to "Cremated-Location of Ashes Unknown." It just might keep the delete-happy admins from getting rid of them.


*headdesk*
_________________________
"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. It's not." - The Once-ler

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#2159558 - 04/19/12 03:13 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KatieABK]
Fairys_Midwife Offline


Registered: 01/27/10
Loc: Monroe, LA
And when they had no problem with the fact that photos and information on my dead uncle (died at 18) were lifted and put on Ancestry was when I left the group. They pretty much felt that I shouldn't have put it on findagrave if I didn't want it lifted. That is like saying if you didn't want your lawn chairs stolen, you shouldn't have put them outside!
_________________________
Genealogy is a game of hide and seek. Ancestors hide, we seek!

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#2292835 - 10/19/12 12:57 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
bugaboo Offline


Registered: 10/15/05
Loc: anywhere but here
Originally Posted By: RosalieAnn
Find A Grave (Find A Grave): Successes, Issues & Solutions
We are a venue on Facebook (FB) which affords all former/current Users of and/or Contributors to the website Find A Grave (Find A Grave) (www.findagrave.com), opportunities to share their experiences - POSITIVE and/or NEGATIVE - about Find A Grave, while suggesting viable solutions towards solving problems on that site.

December 23, 2011 at 1:03a
Quote:
Just wanted to let folks know that if they have any memorials on Find A Grave that are "Burial Unknown," they might want to change them to "Cremated-Location of Ashes Unknown." It just might keep the delete-happy admins from getting rid of them.
Rosalie, I am now one of the admins of that group and I haven't seen that post in there. We welcome anyone to join or come back, the group has changed and I do monitor the posts.
_________________________
"They haven't got brains, any of them, only grey fluff that's blown into their heads by mistake, and they don't Think."

The House at the Pooh Corner by A.A. Milne

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#2293208 - 10/20/12 05:32 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
crokersack Offline


Registered: 01/22/10
I have a problem with folks stealing photos that you personally took and never think a thing about it. Not much you can do unless the law is willing to prosecute. What I do have a problem with is the photo, an old photo, which was not taken by the person placing it there, and their claiming the photo. Many family members have the same photos so who can really lay claim to a photo from the early 1900's. Almost like saying you cannot take a photo of a headstone. They really do not belong to you.

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#2293764 - 10/20/12 07:00 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: crokersack]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Originally Posted By: crokersack
I have a problem with folks stealing photos that you personally took and never think a thing about it. Not much you can do unless the law is willing to prosecute. [snip]


If you're talking about people making online use (w/o your permission) of photographs that you took, then your problem is with copyright violations, not theft; your local prosecutor can't do anything about that. You can contact the offender and, if that fails to achieve the desired result, contact the administrator(s) of the website(s) on which your photographs were posted.

If you're talking about people taking actual photographs from you--taking prints from your purse or desk--then that's a crime ("Theft By Taking", here in GA), and you can file a police report.

I'm afraid I didn't understand the rest of your post, the part that I snipped out in this reply. It's cold here in Atlanta, and my brain doesn't work well when my body's chilly.

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#2301849 - 11/01/12 02:46 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
tsmart Offline


Registered: 06/02/10
Loc: Caldwell, NC
I'm a member of the facebook page, and find it more user friendly (IMHO). People have more of a sense they are talking to real people, and seem to be much more polite (that's just my take though). I've not ran into anyone mentioning "rubbing" or "shaving cream" on headstones (which I do not condone), so is there 2 findagrave facebook pages maybe?

i know one lady was irritate, because she allegedly got "hoo doo'ed" But I know there is two sides to every story. She seemed to have a legit complaint, but that was based on one version of the issue (which ain't my problem).

As far as photos... I get ill when people take mine without issuing credit. But the more I think about it.... I'm posting a picture on the internet. I'd be crazy to think everyone is going to give me credit for my photo, because we do not live in a perfect world. I just uploaded a dozen or so photos today, of lost relatives. I know they'll be stolen by Ancestry (for sure), and the Lord only knows who else. So I take the idea that... if i post a photo, I am sharing it with the world. That way I don't get upset about it. Being upset about it does me no good anyhow.

Just sayin...
_________________________
"Remember......."

Caldwell County, NC - Keeper
steelshot4ducks@yahoo.com

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#2301871 - 11/01/12 03:12 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: tsmart]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
Yes, there are multiple Find A Grave groups on FB.

I suppose you might find them more polite because they don't want to follow the rules (like copying a photo from one memorial to another) and everyone in the FB group says "Oh, that's okay because there was no intent".

tsmart, I don't get "upset" about copyright infringements either. I simply file claims and get them removed.
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2302012 - 11/01/12 06:43 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Originally Posted By: Jackie
Yes, there are multiple Find A Grave groups on FB.

I suppose you might find them more polite because they don't want to follow the rules (like copying a photo from one memorial to another) and everyone in the FB group says "Oh, that's okay because there was no intent". [snip]


The group that I'm in is called "Find A Grave Successes and Stories" or some such thing. I agree with TSmart: the members ARE more polite to and patient with each other than is often the case here in the forums.

And no, Jackie, the reason doesn't seem to be that the group is filled with people who break the rules and those who excuse the breaking of rules. I don't know what the reason IS, but that's not it.

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#2302017 - 11/01/12 06:48 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
I was talking about just the plain "Find A Grave" group with some 2000 members.

Guess you weren't in the Success group a couple of months ago... smile
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2302067 - 11/01/12 07:40 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Originally Posted By: Jackie
I was talking about just the plain "Find A Grave" group with some 2000 members.

Guess you weren't in the Success group a couple of months ago... smile


I've been in the "Success" group for several months, but don't check in daily, or even weekly; if I get a notification that something's been posted I'll go take a look, but I'm sure I've missed some threads.

I do remember some turmoil two? three? months ago. Someone had been kicked out of the group, I think for generally being a jerk and making the girls cry. I remember that he had a website or a blog on which he criticized Find A Grave policies. That's the only bit of ugliness I recall from that group, although as I said, I could have missed some drama.

In the "Successes" group I haven't seen people advocating rule-breaking. I've seen people questioning the reasons behind some of the rules and occasionally complaining about them, but members always step in to (nicely, it seems to me) try to explain the likely reasons for rules and insist (again, nicely) that the rules should be followed.

It often bothers me the way newcomers to these forums are treated. Responses are often snippy and rude--what we in the deep south call "ugly"--and I've seen quite a few people leave in a snit, feeling (rightly, it seemed to me,) that they'd been talked down to. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive-by-proxy.

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#2302077 - 11/01/12 07:50 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RosalieAnn]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
Originally Posted By: ellen
In the "Successes" group I haven't seen people advocating rule-breaking. I've seen people questioning the reasons behind some of the rules and occasionally complaining about them, but members always step in to (nicely, it seems to me) try to explain the likely reasons for rules and insist (again, nicely) that the rules should be followed.

This was posted in that group last year:
Originally Posted By: RosalieAnn
Find A Grave (Find A Grave): Successes, Issues & Solutions
We are a venue on Facebook (FB) which affords all former/current Users of and/or Contributors to the website Find A Grave (Find A Grave) (www.findagrave.com), opportunities to share their experiences - POSITIVE and/or NEGATIVE - about Find A Grave, while suggesting viable solutions towards solving problems on that site.

December 23, 2011 at 1:03a
Quote:
Just wanted to let folks know that if they have any memorials on Find A Grave that are "Burial Unknown," they might want to change them to "Cremated-Location of Ashes Unknown." It just might keep the delete-happy admins from getting rid of them.


That being said, it is a substantially different group now than when it was started a year ago, by someone who had gotten her knuckles wrapped on the main-site. Believe me, the purpose of the group (originally) was to bash Find A Grave.
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2302300 - 11/02/12 07:26 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
tsmart Offline


Registered: 06/02/10
Loc: Caldwell, NC
Originally Posted By: ellen

It often bothers me the way newcomers to these forums are treated. Responses are often snippy and rude--what we in the deep south call "ugly"--and I've seen quite a few people leave in a snit, feeling (rightly, it seemed to me,) that they'd been talked down to. Maybe I'm just being overly sensitive-by-proxy.

You're not overly sensitive.
You hit the nail on the head.

Some of the forums Queens have been quite rude to me too, which is why I usually resort to not posting and viewing the forum at all. Sometimes I relapse, and come view and post. Most of the time though, I realize it was a mistake to have bothered.

I read somewhere earlier in this thread, where someone said something to the regards "They better be glad they didn't post that here, or they would have been slammed".
That type of mentality is the downfall of the forum.
Not everyone has it, but enough people have it to make me not want to visit often.

T.
_________________________
"Remember......."

Caldwell County, NC - Keeper
steelshot4ducks@yahoo.com

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#2302469 - 11/02/12 10:45 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: tsmart]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
T, too many times those in the "big" FB group have excused violating the site policies with comments about never having read the FAQs and see no reason to. That type of mentality should NOT be encouraged.

And let's remember you have also excused violating the policies here in these forums. When you say you realized it was a mistake to have bothered, perhaps the mistake was in excusing wrongful behavior...
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2302591 - 11/02/12 01:20 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
billl Offline


Registered: 11/18/04
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Been around this block a few times! smile

When I see someone "slammed" in here it seems that it's usually because they came in insisting that their way is the only way to run the site and to H*ll with what Jim's rules are. And then blather on about it interminably and get all hurt when they're pointed to the FAQs and that they're wrong!


Edited by billl (11/02/12 01:21 PM)
_________________________
A mind is a terrible thing to close.

Your Creator gave you a brain. Try it, you'd be amazed at all you can discover.

We are born naked, wet, hungry, and get slapped on our arse; then things get worse.



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#2302606 - 11/02/12 01:39 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: billl]
BluePineRidge Offline


Registered: 03/17/10
Loc: Napping on the keyboard
Find A Grave (Find A Grave): Successes, Issues & Solutions

I think that is the name of one of the Find A Grave groups I belong to over there

I follow the rules here as far as I know. Don't generalize everyone on Find A Grave FB pages.

I go to FB for entertainment. If you don't know right and wrong you probably don't belong on Find A Grave....there are other places if you want to break the rules-right?

Newbies are always going to be learning the ropes at the beginning and should have some lee way for a bit of time.

_________________________
Faith CAN move a mountain!

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#2302648 - 11/02/12 02:31 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BluePineRidge]
KatieABK Offline


Registered: 06/11/09
Loc: Ohio
Originally Posted By: BluePineRidge
Newbies are always going to be learning the ropes at the beginning and should have some lee way for a bit of time.



I agree, and it bothers me when newbies get slammed in the forums and driven away from contributing. The way this site is set up, someone could easily start adding memorials without reading the FAQs (especially because they are called FAQs, which sounds like somewhere you go if you are having problems using the site). It's different than the situation in which someone knows they are not supposed to do certain things but does it anyway.
_________________________
"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot,
nothing is going to get better. It's not." - The Once-ler

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#2302684 - 11/02/12 03:33 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: KatieABK]
brknhrt2001 Offline


Registered: 08/07/07
Loc: In the state of confusion
I am in several findagrave groups on FB. I left one because of the nasty "numbers" whining. It got ugly and I don't want to be like that so I left. That subject comes up on the other ones, but not with as much nastiness.
_________________________
Of course I am out of my mind.
It's dark and scary in there!

For entertainment purposes only.

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#2302716 - 11/02/12 04:11 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: brknhrt2001]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
I believe that was the one I was in. I was repeatedly slammed for being a "FAQs nun" and speaking out against copyright infringement.
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2302869 - 11/02/12 08:22 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
Pak Offline


Registered: 07/06/10
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Is "FAQs nun" a slightly more PC version of FAQ Nazi?
wink

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#2303122 - 11/02/12 11:04 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: billl]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Originally Posted By: billl
Been around this block a few times! smile

When I see someone "slammed" in here it seems that it's usually because they came in insisting that their way is the only way to run the site and to H*ll with what Jim's rules are. And then blather on about it interminably and get all hurt when they're pointed to the FAQs and that they're wrong!


Sometimes that IS the case, but most of what I've seen (or most of what I remember seeing, which may not be the same thing) is someone coming in with a question(s), and being spoken to dismissively and rudely. I'm NOT speaking of any particular person(s) as being dismissive and rude. I suspect that we've all been guilty at one time or another; I admit that I have. (I've sent quite a few PMs to people, apologizing for my (and/or our) treatment of them. I've always gotten a reply along the lines of, "Thanks, but you people/those people are mean.")

If you look at the number of times any particular thread has been viewed and compare that to the number of posts in a thread (and then consider that a very few people post repeatedly,) you'll see that many people read each thread but never enter into the discussion. Some of them just don't want to get involved, some of them feel they have nothing else to contribute on a particular topic, and some of them are just lurking for the time being. I can't help feeling, though, that a lot of them are reluctant to speak in the forums because they've seen what (reasonably, I think) appears to be meanness on our part.

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#2303161 - 11/02/12 11:32 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
Ellen, let's consider the current copyright thread in the Help forum where a newby's very first post was ranting and raving.

I'm from the practical Midwest. We tend to be a bit more straight-forward than other areas. We call a spade a spade. Too often, others perceive that straight-forwardness as "rude" or even "mean". No matter how you slice it, when you tell someone something they do not want to hear, they will take exception to it and try to turn the blame back on the messenger.

Too many times, someone comes in and their very first post is not a question as much as a complaint or demand that the site is wrong. I've been around forums long enough to know that it is wise to lurk and learn. One forum I'm on does not allow a new member to post until after a week after joining. And there is a LOT to be learned by reading threads here. When I first joined here, I read the forums for about ten days before posting learning the vernacular (like "dupes" and "plops") and what was expected.
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2303535 - 11/03/12 01:37 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
BluePineRidge Offline


Registered: 03/17/10
Loc: Napping on the keyboard
Originally Posted By: Jackie

I'm from the practical Midwest. We tend to be a bit more straight-forward than other areas. We call a spade a spade. Too often, others perceive that straight-forwardness as "rude" or even "mean". No matter how you slice it, when you tell someone something they do not want to hear, they will take exception to it and try to turn the blame back on the messenger.
I get that from being a Midwesterner? I wondered.

People don't like the truth.

I often come off rude because of the truth.

_________________________
Faith CAN move a mountain!

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#2303538 - 11/03/12 01:39 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BluePineRidge]
eesmith60 Online   happy


Registered: 09/04/12
Loc: Long Island, NY, USA
Try being from NY and not being thought of as rude...lol
_________________________
Just stand closer to the Rhino. grin
Age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time. wink
I trace my family history so I know who to blame. laugh

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#2303547 - 11/03/12 01:44 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BluePineRidge]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
Originally Posted By: BluePineRidge
Originally Posted By: Jackie

I'm from the practical Midwest. We tend to be a bit more straight-forward than other areas. We call a spade a spade. Too often, others perceive that straight-forwardness as "rude" or even "mean". No matter how you slice it, when you tell someone something they do not want to hear, they will take exception to it and try to turn the blame back on the messenger.
I get that from being a Midwesterner? I wondered.
Okay, maybe I get it from a father who never sugar-coated a darned thing. Siblings and I believe if a few more people had of been raised by him, the world would be a far better place because we wouldn't have to tippy-toe around trying to find a PC way of saying "You're wrong".
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2303676 - 11/03/12 04:32 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: BluePineRidge]
billl Offline


Registered: 11/18/04
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Originally Posted By: BluePineRidge
Originally Posted By: Jackie

I'm from the practical Midwest. We tend to be a bit more straight-forward than other areas. We call a spade a spade. Too often, others perceive that straight-forwardness as "rude" or even "mean". No matter how you slice it, when you tell someone something they do not want to hear, they will take exception to it and try to turn the blame back on the messenger.
I get that from being a Midwesterner? I wondered.

People don't like the truth.

I often come off rude because of the truth.



People think you're rude? They ain't seen rude yet! smile
_________________________
A mind is a terrible thing to close.

Your Creator gave you a brain. Try it, you'd be amazed at all you can discover.

We are born naked, wet, hungry, and get slapped on our arse; then things get worse.



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#2303930 - 11/03/12 09:30 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Originally Posted By: Jackie
Ellen, let's consider the current copyright thread in the Help forum where a newby's very first post was ranting and raving.

I'm from the practical Midwest. We tend to be a bit more straight-forward than other areas. We call a spade a spade. Too often, others perceive that straight-forwardness as "rude" or even "mean". No matter how you slice it, when you tell someone something they do not want to hear, they will take exception to it and try to turn the blame back on the messenger.

Too many times, someone comes in and their very first post is not a question as much as a complaint or demand that the site is wrong. I've been around forums long enough to know that it is wise to lurk and learn. One forum I'm on does not allow a new member to post until after a week after joining. And there is a LOT to be learned by reading threads here. When I first joined here, I read the forums for about ten days before posting learning the vernacular (like "dupes" and "plops") and what was expected.


Thanks, Jackie, for a very well reasoned and well articulated response. I don't disagree with a thing you wrote, and you've given me some things to ponder.

Geography: You state that you're from the Midwest, where people tend to be "more straight-forward...." I'm from the deep south, where people tend to be exactly the opposite. I'll try to keep in mind that someone who writes something that I think is rude is just stating a fact or opinion w/o all the verbiage that we southerners use to cushion the blows we deal to others.

Lurking: I, too, lurked in the forums (for a couple of months) before I waded in (full of trepidation, because y'all seemed so mean.) During my lurking period I gained much useful information about the site, and learned two Important Things about the forums: Do NOT mention "numbers", and mention "genealogy" carefully, if at all. As my time and experience with the site have increased, I definitely understand why those words make people's back-hairs rise, like a dog confronted by a hissing cat: trouble is likely to be on the way.

I would just ask that all of us--and I'm definitely including myself in that "us"--carefully consider how our words might sound to someone who doesn't know us, who doesn't know that we are straight-forward as opposed to abrupt/rude. And especially with a new poster, keep in mind that s/he might be diving into deep waters filled with unknown, toothy creatures, and that some people dive into such waters with knives drawn, but sincerely hoping that they don't need to use those knives.

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#2303933 - 11/03/12 09:37 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
eesmith60 Online   happy


Registered: 09/04/12
Loc: Long Island, NY, USA
ellen - if someone says something you think may be rude, just put a "bless her heart" after it and it'll all be ok....lol
_________________________
Just stand closer to the Rhino. grin
Age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time. wink
I trace my family history so I know who to blame. laugh

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#2303937 - 11/03/12 09:42 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: eesmith60]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Originally Posted By: eesmith60
ellen - if someone says something you think may be rude, just put a "bless her heart" after it and it'll all be ok....lol


Excellent idea, and one I will definitely keep in mind. Thanks. ROTFLMFAO!

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#2303938 - 11/03/12 09:43 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
eesmith60 Online   happy


Registered: 09/04/12
Loc: Long Island, NY, USA
wink
_________________________
Just stand closer to the Rhino. grin
Age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time. wink
I trace my family history so I know who to blame. laugh

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#2303952 - 11/03/12 09:57 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Seriously, before I first dared post in the forums, I was so scared of y'all that I had to have a couple of shots of bourbon--and I'm definitely NOT a bourbon-drinker, NOR a terribly timid person. I'd read the FAQs before I ever created a memorial (and several more times before I posted here,) I'd learned the lingo and the Do-Not-Mentions, and I knew to expect the worst--having already been baptized by fire in the Todd Rundgren-forums. Still, I trembled as I awaited responses to that first post. (I lived through it, obviously.)

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#2303958 - 11/03/12 10:05 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
eesmith60 Online   happy


Registered: 09/04/12
Loc: Long Island, NY, USA
There ya go - liquid courage! lol It can get heated sometimes but I figure the people that seem so "rabid" about the rules have been here a long time, have seen a lot of changes, and more than their fair share of people who simply refuse to follow any of the rules or guidelines. I haven't "mowed" any rows, or taken any photo's and can only imagine the time, effort and heart these people put into this site trying to do the right thing and get all the info correct - hundreds if not thousands of memorials - only to have some idiot come along a muck up all their hard work. This is a passion for alot on here. And lord only knows, we've seen their passion! lol
_________________________
Just stand closer to the Rhino. grin
Age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time. wink
I trace my family history so I know who to blame. laugh

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#2303962 - 11/03/12 10:08 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
I just find the idea that people are "nicer" over on FB. I should post the screenshots of some of the exchanges I was in. Yes, I was, as always, straight-forward attempting to explain the "rules" and the purpose of the site (not genealogy). The others blasted me for it - and far from "nice" about it. Rude doesn't even begin to describe it. In addition to the previously mentioned name calling, I was accused of "shoving the rules in their face". They did NOT want to hear that genealogy was not the purpose of this site - they used it for genealogy so that was the only thing that mattered to them. Everyone who was not interested in genealogy and transferring every memorial was a
"numbers wxxxe". Yeah, much nicer...


Edited by RDigati (11/04/12 05:18 AM)
Edit Reason: Toned it down a bit.
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2303964 - 11/03/12 10:11 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
eesmith60 Online   happy


Registered: 09/04/12
Loc: Long Island, NY, USA
I got a voodoo doll - want me to stick 'em? grin
_________________________
Just stand closer to the Rhino. grin
Age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time. wink
I trace my family history so I know who to blame. laugh

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#2304142 - 11/04/12 05:22 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: eesmith60]
RDigati Offline

Angel of the Cemeteries

Registered: 05/24/04
Loc: South Jersey
Hi guys... first... (puts on Mod hat)- please do not post any screen shots from FB here.. that would add what I think would be a non-constructive dimension to this discussion.

I think a little venting is healthy- especially if it's generalized. Please keep that factor in mind.

(mod hat off)

to Ellen... did you have to drink first on the Todd Rundgren forum? Or did you just say "Hello it's me" in your first post and go from there?
smile


Edited by RDigati (11/04/12 05:22 AM)
_________________________
"Find A Grave? At my age the grave FINDS YOU!" - Joe Digati , 1928-2005

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#2304152 - 11/04/12 06:12 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RDigati]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
Originally Posted By: RDigati
Hi guys... first... (puts on Mod hat)- please do not post any screen shots from FB here.. that would add what I think would be a non-constructive dimension to this discussion.
(mod hat off)
smile

Wouldn't dream of it as, to my thinking, that is contrary to the Forum FAQs as it is like posting someone's email. However, IF I wanted to show the screenshots, I'd post them on my web-site and give out the link....
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2304167 - 11/04/12 06:42 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
RDigati Offline

Angel of the Cemeteries

Registered: 05/24/04
Loc: South Jersey
What you do in PM's/your own Facebook page/Email is most certainly your own business.

However- in my Northeastern plain speaking way- please let me be clear that screenshots and links to screenshots (for the purpose of fueling Facebook gripes or any other "outing" purpose)that are posted here will be edited out.

And that's not to you specifically Jackie (although your post brought it up as a talking point)...it would apply to anyone in this case.

(Ellen- do you have any Knob Creek? wink )
_________________________
"Find A Grave? At my age the grave FINDS YOU!" - Joe Digati , 1928-2005

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#2304172 - 11/04/12 06:54 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RDigati]
eesmith60 Online   happy


Registered: 09/04/12
Loc: Long Island, NY, USA
Originally Posted By: RDigati
(Ellen- do you have any Knob Creek? wink )


Not sure about Ellen but Caboose34 had some BV yesterday (if there's any left)!! grin
_________________________
Just stand closer to the Rhino. grin
Age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time. wink
I trace my family history so I know who to blame. laugh

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#2304179 - 11/04/12 07:10 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: eesmith60]
RDigati Offline

Angel of the Cemeteries

Registered: 05/24/04
Loc: South Jersey
(I never touch whiskey or scotch- when I sip the hard stuff I'm a bourbon girl all the way.)
_________________________
"Find A Grave? At my age the grave FINDS YOU!" - Joe Digati , 1928-2005

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#2304181 - 11/04/12 07:14 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RDigati]
eesmith60 Online   happy


Registered: 09/04/12
Loc: Long Island, NY, USA
I don't drink that stuff at all so I didn't know there was a differenc...lol (I do like my beer tho)
_________________________
Just stand closer to the Rhino. grin
Age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time. wink
I trace my family history so I know who to blame. laugh

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#2304192 - 11/04/12 07:36 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RDigati]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
Originally Posted By: RDigati
What you do in PM's/
That's not quite true. In the past, people have gotten time outs for what they said in PM's...
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2304227 - 11/04/12 08:07 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
RDigati Offline

Angel of the Cemeteries

Registered: 05/24/04
Loc: South Jersey
Then someone obviously complained/forwarded them or alerted an admin to a problem.

I wouldn't be one to be inspired to go fishing in someone else's PM's... but I speak only for myself.


This week I was lucky I could even read my email.
_________________________
"Find A Grave? At my age the grave FINDS YOU!" - Joe Digati , 1928-2005

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#2304440 - 11/04/12 11:58 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RDigati]
Pak Offline


Registered: 07/06/10
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
Originally Posted By: RDigati
(I never touch whiskey or scotch- when I sip the hard stuff I'm a bourbon girl all the way.)


To nit pick, Bourbon is a whiskey as is Scotch. Perhaps by "Whiskey" you were referring to the many blended varieties?

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#2304441 - 11/04/12 11:58 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
camerabug Offline


Registered: 08/12/09
Loc: Right side of reality
Originally Posted By: ellen
Originally Posted By: eesmith60
ellen - if someone says something you think may be rude, just put a "bless her heart" after it and it'll all be ok....lol


Excellent idea, and one I will definitely keep in mind. Thanks. ROTFLMFAO!



In the South, if you don't want to say what you REALLY want to say, you just plain say "Bless her heart!" It gets the point across REAL quick!
_________________________
Aaron


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#2304444 - 11/04/12 12:00 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: camerabug]
eesmith60 Online   happy


Registered: 09/04/12
Loc: Long Island, NY, USA
My fave - "She can eat an apple thru a picket fence, bless her heart!" lol
_________________________
Just stand closer to the Rhino. grin
Age and treachery beat youth and enthusiasm every time. wink
I trace my family history so I know who to blame. laugh

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#2304748 - 11/04/12 05:21 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Pak]
RDigati Offline

Angel of the Cemeteries

Registered: 05/24/04
Loc: South Jersey
Originally Posted By: Pak
Originally Posted By: RDigati
(I never touch whiskey or scotch- when I sip the hard stuff I'm a bourbon girl all the way.)


To nit pick, Bourbon is a whiskey as is Scotch. Perhaps by "Whiskey" you were referring to the many blended varieties?


Indeed it is... and I knew that- but I order it as bourbon. I don't typically hear folks ask for a scotch WHISKEY or a Bourbon WHISKEY when they order it... Lord only knows what they might get if they did lol

I like aged, smooth 66+% corn mash bourbon myself. (hence the Knob Creek reference smile )

(Years ago I learned that you don't raise this question in a room full of Jack Daniels fans lol you'll start a war lol)



Edited by RDigati (11/04/12 05:22 PM)
_________________________
"Find A Grave? At my age the grave FINDS YOU!" - Joe Digati , 1928-2005

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#2304823 - 11/04/12 06:59 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RDigati]
Jillg Offline


Registered: 10/17/08
Loc: Ohio USA
There seem to be many Find A Gravers that have made Facebook pages.
Not all are full of rule breakers, whiners or rude people.
Like any online group you have to pick and chose one that's right for you.















_________________________
"Wherever you go, go with all your heart"

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#2304928 - 11/04/12 09:36 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: RDigati]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Originally Posted By: RDigati
[snip] (mod hat off) To Ellen... did you have to drink first on the Todd Rundgren forum? Or did you just say "Hello it's me" in your first post and go from there?
smile


LOL, I made NO introductions, and had NO preparatory shots. This was in 2004, and I'd just gone onto the internets. I lurked in the Todd-group for a couple of months, reading 1,000's of posts and the TOS, and then jumped right in.

There was a nasty hurricane hitting the Gulf Coast at the time, and everyone was posting links to the Red Cross; I posted links to the FL and AL humane societies with a comment about not forgetting the suffering of animals, and the sh^t hit the fan! I got dozens of replies, all along the lines of, "What's wrong with you, that you think dogs matter more than humans?! [multiple expletives deleted]" I'd never seen such ugliness, and I finally understood the southerner's need for such things as fainting couches and smelling salts. And bourbon!

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#2304938 - 11/04/12 09:52 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
ellen Offline


Registered: 01/08/12
Loc: Deep South
Originally Posted By: Jackie
I just find the idea that people are "nicer" over on FB. I should post the screenshots of some of the exchanges I was in. Yes, I was, as always, straight-forward attempting to explain the "rules" and the purpose of the site (not genealogy). The others blasted me for it - and far from "nice" about it. Rude doesn't even begin to describe it. In addition to the previously mentioned name calling, I was accused of "shoving the rules in their face". They did NOT want to hear that genealogy was not the purpose of this site - they used it for genealogy so that was the only thing that mattered to them. Everyone who was not interested in genealogy and transferring every memorial was a "numbers wxxxe". Yeah, much nicer...


That's a shame, and I'm sorry that you had to deal with that kind of abuse. I haven't seen that in the Facebook group, but as I've said, my experience there has been more recent and pretty limited.

When I first joined the forums I couldn't understand the grave registration vs. genealogy bitterness. I'd come across the site during my genealogy research, and it seemed to me to be a place where both interests could easily be served; I hadn't yet learned that many of the "family historians" use the site with their purpose exclusively in mind, and that they were willing to ignore the site's rules in pursuit of their passion.

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#2305117 - 11/05/12 06:25 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
You haven't run across a contributor with a large number of BUs full of links yet? How about dupes, also linked, which they refuse to delete on the basis of "it's my family"?
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2305306 - 11/05/12 11:12 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: ellen]
billl Offline


Registered: 11/18/04
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Originally Posted By: ellen
There was a nasty hurricane hitting the Gulf Coast at the time, and everyone was posting links to the Red Cross; I posted links to the FL and AL humane societies with a comment about not forgetting the suffering of animals, and the sh^t hit the fan! I got dozens of replies, all along the lines of, "What's wrong with you, that you think dogs matter more than humans?! [multiple expletives deleted]" I'd never seen such ugliness, and I finally understood the southerner's need for such things as fainting couches and smelling salts. And bourbon!


We get that a lot around here too. People who sincerely believe that animals have no business being memorialized here. My response to them? I've met many, many animals I would far prefer to be buried with than a lot of the humans I've known.
_________________________
A mind is a terrible thing to close.

Your Creator gave you a brain. Try it, you'd be amazed at all you can discover.

We are born naked, wet, hungry, and get slapped on our arse; then things get worse.



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#2305326 - 11/05/12 11:56 AM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: billl]
Jackie Offline


Registered: 10/20/05
Loc: baNs neighborhood
I've never known a truly bad animal; unfortunately I cannot say the same for humans.

That being said, what could be more inhumane than to not take care of the animals? It's not a matter of caring more for one or the other. In huge disasters, like Katrina, where it takes weeks to locate and collect the human bodies, starving dogs and cats are going to help themselves to any hunk of meat they find...
_________________________
Duping when denied a transfer is "bad behavior". Rewarding bad behavior only encourages it.

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#2305335 - 11/05/12 12:15 PM Re: FindAGrave on Facebook (rant) [Re: Jackie]
linpar Offline


Registered: 12/21/06
Loc: Northwest Indiana
They have depended on us their whole lives to take care of them, how can we turn our backs?
_________________________
If life gives you lemons, make lemonade

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